Little Sally prays to God, asking for a pony. She never gets one. As a teenager, she decides maybe her prayer was too selfish, so she prays for world peace. Doesn't happen. As a young philosophy major, she thinks that perhaps that prayer was asking too much, and besides, maybe it infringes on free will, so she prays for strength and guidance, and maybe to meet a nice guy to marry.

Now Sally is thirty-five, slightly depressed, doesn't feel strong nor guided in life, and is still single. God has not answered prayers in the way she expected, so why should she even ask? Plus, she thinks to herself, why does she even need to pray if God knows everything? Doesn't God already know what she wants? What's the point of prayer?

Your initial post focuses on one type of prayer, the prayer of petition or asking. To our understanding there are 2 ways of answering that prayer, yes or no. Although, you did allow that God might have been answering Sally's prayer in a way she wasn't expecting or open to.

There are numerous kinds of prayer. But they all have in common (I would even argue meditiation does, and will expound on that if need be) that they are a form of conversation with God. That is because I allege the point of prayer is to build and maintain a relationship with God.

What about honest dialogue, telling God how your day was, thanking God for things that went well, asking God what's up with that idiot supervisor that keeps infuriating you. Conversation with friends isn't constantly asking them, "can I have a million dollars? Can I have a pony? Can you make world peace?" That type of prayer, while good in that it gets you talking to God, isn't the only form.

Doesn't God already know that stuff?

Yes, the Divine plan and the fact that prayer is often directed at an all knowing being seems to kinda odd no? I belive its just a way to etablish dialouge with the divine being that one prays to. Plus the idea that one's divine being is listening to one's prayer makes the person who prays have a sense of comfort.

God does already know all this, but that does not make the action itself worthless. It is not the result of prayer, but prayer itself, which is important. This is true whether we are talking to God, thanking God, or asking God for something. The prayer itself is far more important than what happens as a result of it.

Personally, I would say that the most valuable kind of prayer is worship. Thanking God, worshipping God, and glorifying God. And what we all must realize is that whatever it is that we pray for, God's will is final. Our lives are not our own, they are God's to use for his divine will.

Okay, so let's say that we grant the validity of meditative prayer and prayer of praise. How about the type of prayer in which we ask for things? Is this valid at all? I mean, after all:

Psycholopher,
I would grant that prayer in which you request things of God is valid in the sense that it is talking to God. If done enough it gets you in the habit and you're more likley to pray in thanksgiving or worship or meditate.

So there's value in the sense that you're talking to God, but no inherent value/use in the act of requesting something, right? I mean, because you're not going to get what you expect.

I'm not sure I quite agree with that. I think that there still is value in asking, but that that value does not necessarily come from getting what we want. But the Bible does tell us "Ask and it will be given to you." Of course, seeing as our lives are not our own, how can we ask for anything without it being a selfish desire? If we have true faith and ask, it will be given to us, but if we have true faith, and truly give our lives to God, we will only ask for that which God wants us to ask for.

Can we ever know this though?

I think that if we had true faith, our will would be the same as the will of God. Although I don't think anyone can ever reach that level of faith.

That sounds predestinationist... just to check, Nevin do you believe in predestination? I thought I vaguely remember you saying some where earlier that you didn't, so I might have taken that out of context, or more likely, misunderstood what you mean. OR just as likely, I'm remembering incorrectly and you do actually believe in predestination (which would be an interesting debate in it's own right... give me a second to start that one up.)

Yes and no. I do believe in predestination, but I don't believe that predestination and free will are exclusive concepts.

Okay just to throw it out again...is there any value of prayer other than "opening the lines of communication?"

None that I can see.

psych,
what do you think? You've been a bit silent on this one...

I agree with a lot of what has been said. I do not think that there is anything "wrong" with asking God for money or fame or fortune. It is, as you say, opening the lines of communication. When you don't receive money or fame or fortune, you have in a way an "answer" from God. But I think it's important to keep talking, keep asking, keep praising and thanking.

That being said, I believe that Zen meditation is an incredibly powerful form of prayer. It is in a way, the ultimate way of listening (so much of prayer in the Christian tradition is focused on speaking or praising or asking). But sometimes, when God speaks, we just need to shut up and listen. This is what Zen meditation can do.

You strip down all of your attachments--strip away attachments like your thoughts about the test you just flunked, or the girl that likes you, or the car that you want to buy. You strip away all of these attachments and all of these thoughts--and what else is there but you and God?