Title: Pope's Speech
Description: Oops
Deltasix - September 15, 2006 11:50 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
Pope 'meant no offence' to Islam
The Vatican has denied that Pope Benedict XVI intended any offence to the Muslim religion, after a speech touching on the concept of holy war.
Speaking in Germany, the Pope quoted a 14th Century Christian emperor who said the Prophet Muhammad had brought the world only "evil and inhuman" things.
The remarks have angered clerics and commentators around the Muslim world.
However, the Vatican said the Pope had wanted to make clear that he rejected violence motivated by religion.
The pontiff had not intended to offend Muslims, the Vatican said.
"It certainly wasn't the intention of the Pope to carry out a deep examination of jihad (holy war) and of Muslim thought on it, much less to offend the sensibility of Muslim believers," said chief Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi in a statement.
"It is clear that the Holy Father's intention is to cultivate a position of respect and dialogue towards other religions and cultures, and that clearly includes Islam."
But the statement has failed to quell criticism. In developments around the world:
- Pakistan summoned the Vatican's ambassador to express regret over the remarks, as parliament passed a resolution condemning the comments
- The head of the Muslim Brotherhood said the remarks "aroused the anger of the whole Islamic world"
- Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniya condemned the Pope's comments
- In Iraq, the comments were criticised at Friday prayers by followers of radical Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr
- Salih Kapusuz, deputy leader of Turkey's ruling AK party, likened the pontiff to Hitler and Mussolini
- The 57-nation Organisation of the Islamic Conference said it regretted the Pope's remarks
Violence and faith
The controversy comes on an important day for the Vatican, with Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, former Archbishop of Genoa, taking over as secretary of state.
Correspondents say Pope Benedict, who has been closeted with his chief advisers at his summer residence near Rome, is upset at the way in which his remarks have been interpreted.
The Vatican is seriously concerned that the protests might develop into violence directed at the tiny city state, says the BBC's David Willey in Rome.
But preparations for the Pope's forthcoming visit to Turkey, a predominantly Muslim secular nation, in November, are going ahead as planned.
In his speech at Regensburg University, the German-born Pope explored the historical and philosophical differences between Islam and Christianity, and the relationship between violence and faith.
Stressing that they were not his own words, he quoted Emperor Manuel II Paleologos of the Byzantine Empire, the Orthodox Christian empire which had its capital in what is now the Turkish city of Istanbul.
The emperor's words were, he said: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
Benedict said "I quote" twice to stress the words were not his and added that violence was "incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul".
"The intention here is not one of retrenchment or negative criticism, but of broadening our concept of reason and its application," he added in the concluding part of his speech.
"Only thus do we become capable of that genuine dialogue of cultures and religions so urgently needed today." |
Full Speech (PDF)News SourceI honestly don't think he was trying to offend anyone with the statements he made, just was kinda dumb and not too "Politically Correct."
And because of what happened over
cartoons earlier in the year, yeah, I'd have been more careful with what I said.
jammyd01 - September 16, 2006 12:03 AM (GMT)
I obviously know that Islam is followed far more strictly in the middle east but i just think its funny how if a muslim said Christianity was evil the response from the west would be a mixture of the following
1. a few christian fundamentalist getting angry
2. a few racists using it to 'prove' muslims are terrible people
3. alot of people saying 'yer its kind of true, christianity is evil', or laughing it off
4. alot of people not caring enough to even discuss it or know it'd happened.
5. and some Daytime tv shows and radio stations having an intelectual debate about it.
so the response would be calm and most people wouldn't care at all. So i hope a muslim does say something like that so that we can see the reaction and say 'yer, we don't give a shit'
Having said that it was a stupid thing for Benedict to say.
Deltasix - September 16, 2006 02:37 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (jammyd01 @ Sep 15 2006, 08:03 PM) |
I obviously know that Islam is followed far more strictly in the middle east but i just think its funny how if a muslim said Christianity was evil the response from the west would be a mixture of the following
1. a few christian fundamentalist getting angry
2. a few racists using it to 'prove' muslims are terrible people
3. alot of people saying 'yer its kind of true, christianity is evil', or laughing it off
4. alot of people not caring enough to even discuss it or know it'd happened.
5. and some Daytime tv shows and radio stations having an intelectual debate about it. |
True, but also, Islam doesn't have the same type of super head figure as Christianity does, even if all (or even most, I'm not sure what the ratio of Roman Catholics to other sects) don't see him as that.
But I agree with your point. I have trouble seeing protests and uprising, screaming of "Death to Iraq/Iran/Saudi Arabia" to the extent that we see here. While I have nothing against Islam, I throughly dislike the few extremists who get worked up over stupid things (like cartoons) and then tend to be seen as the majority.
Boru - September 20, 2006 03:14 PM (GMT)
A few people, mainly western muslims, expressed sentiments thanking the Pope for clearing up what was just a misunderstanding.
And the Pope's remarks, while taken out of context, are SPECTACULARLY stupid for a variety of reasons. In light of the hullaballoo that happened due to the cartoons I would have hoped he would use more caution when commenting on Islam in what can be interpreted as a negative light.
Also, while Islam doesn't have as centralized a figure or one as prominant as the Pope, they do respect their religious leaders. If a religious leader, an imam, where to make similar comments about christianity they would be expected to take it seriously. Thus muslims who aren't aware of the context in which the pope was speaking (a lecture) would see him as addressing the faithful telling them that Islam is evil... and would potentially feel threatened that a religious leader of another faith is instructing followers that their religion is 'evil.' And would react accordingly, perhaps even premeptively to head off whatever attacks they think those remarks would spark once digested.
sitegod - September 21, 2006 05:49 PM (GMT)
I discussed this matter primarily on an islamic forum (if you want the link, PM me) and they seem to be ignorant of the fact that he merely quoted these opinions and stressed that he didn't agree. But the majority DO seem offended, but not to the point of killing people...
Sakrotac - September 23, 2006 10:11 AM (GMT)
It seems to be that people nowadays just want something to complain about. If people disagree, they shouldn't get stressed about it... they should just recognize that other people have other beliefs and get on with their own thing.
Intifada - September 23, 2006 11:30 AM (GMT)
The Pope's speech was, in a nutshell, ill-advised.
When Muslims pretty much all over the world feel threatened by the West in general, the last thing the Pope needs to be doing is quoting texts that describe Islam as an evil religion.
Muslims should be able to rise above this kind of comment, and I believe that most Muslims did attempt to refute what was said in an intelligent and appropriate manner.
However, when one takes into account the fact that two Islamic nations have been invaded and occupied by Western (and to an extent, it must be said Christian) armies, one should be able to understand that Muslims were going to feel threatened yet again, causing them to defend their religion.
Of course, when it comes to slaying nuns, people are stepping over the line. Such actions serve only to give the impression that all Muslims are crazy.
Keep in mind, however, that such a response is not representative of the Muslim community as a whole.
Deltasix - September 27, 2006 02:32 PM (GMT)
The thing I don't really get is why, at this time, would he be so careless with his words. I realize he wasn't speaking in a public forum, but still, hes the Pope for gosh sake!
Sakrotac - September 27, 2006 05:17 PM (GMT)
Exactly! Other People might get away with it, but the Pope should watch his mouth a bit, and make sure to take care when speaking.
Deltasix - December 1, 2006 08:12 PM (GMT)
He seems to honestly be trying to make amends with his visit to Turkey.
