I saw this fellow on the Daily Show, strikes me as an interesting person, and I do hope to get my hands on his book, God's Politics, Why the right gets it wrong and the left doesn't get it, somtime soon. Here's how it basicly went down:

Since when was God pro-war, pro-rich, and only pro-American? It makes little sense that God's primamry goal would be the capital gains tax cut, but the right has played up such a monopoly on the "God ticket" that to be alined with "morals" is to be alined with the right.

The moral issues seems to be centered around the "Sacinity of Marriage" and the like, but the bible has some 3000 verses on aiding the poor, somthing that the right isn't famous for. What about protecting the land that God supposly created, its creation, that should be a moral issue.

As for the left, they horribly underestimate the "Relgion Card" that the right holds on to. The left also goes for a too stong speration of relgious morals and actions in politcs. I can say to that this: Let your morals and what you belive in, as we all do, guide you, but don't impose relgious morals on others, and be respectful of theirs.

There is also meation of MLK Jr. and Desmond Tutu, the latter of which I do hold great respect for, and the former its a given my respect for him.

Anyways, what are your feelings on "Gods politcs"? And if you don't belive God to be an actual being, what are your feelings on what religion has built up as a God, and its poitlics?

Just to clarify.. you're saying that the left is too critical of people letting their religious beliefs influence their politics?

The book is stating that the Left trys too hard to say "Relgion and God isn't to influence" when it does, and by stating that it shouldn't they aleinate a great many people.

So are we debating whether or not religion and politics should be intermingling? Or whether or not religion and the government should be intermingling? Or both? I'm a wee bit confused.

I just stated this topic to inform you of a postion that I found to be not so bad. I actually rather agree with it.

I happen to agree with the position too. Thanks for the heads up.

Yeah I basically agree. I think it's perfectly understandable that people bring their religion into their political beliefs and actions.

However if they do so, they shouldn't pick and choose which religious beliefs to bring into politics and which to leave out.

God said that the law does not make anyone righteous. Ofcourse he was referring the laws of the old covenant. But if the laws of god don't make anyone righteous will the laws of men be any better? Obviously not.

Hmm...God and polictics. Well this would depend. Morals given by holy scriptures often underpin many of the laws that our countries are governed by; however, pure religion is often ignored by governments.

Yeah, a lot of our political theory was based on Locke's ideas. The idea of inalienable rights, for example, was for Locke rooted in God.

Today's discussions of rights only goes back to God when its convenient for it to do so.

Well, this last Sunday I saw the authuor of the book "God's Politics" speak at a local bookstore. I found what he had to say very interesting indeed.

Book
^That link sends you to a porition of the book, and that was basiclly what his lecture was centered around. I do belive this person has a great idea, and so far its been generating quite a bit of press wherever he goes.

Wow. That "fourth" political option is exactly what I believe. In fact I've fantasized about starting a political party just like that (no joke).

Yeah, myself and another Jesuit Volunteer in Milwaukee (we meet up once a quarter on retreat) were talking about it. He wants to start a grassroots political party based on Catholic Social Teaching, because... well really argues against compassion for the oppressed and working for economic justice.

I just finished reading this book, and I loved it. Although I didn't agree with Wallis on everything he said, I agreed with him on an awful lot. If that "fourth" political option existed, I'd sure as hell (no pun intended) vote for it.

Doesn't the canidate/platform he laid out sound an aweful lot like Jimmy Carter's platform/campagin?

well man and god are opposite (although they are in servitude to each other). So with logic- if gods laws don't work- man, being opposite to god, may be better at making laws for themselves.

I would disagree with the position of the original post- religion shouldn't influence politicians. They should be influenced by what their people want and need. Of course, judgement for that is the politicians alone most times but there they should use the morals they used to be elected (i.e in case they had a major conversion in morals post-election) to decide on what is needed to be done.

How so?

One is supposedly omnipotent, the other is relatively impotent (well according to most myths and legends)- one is omniscient, the other is little knowing etc. And also, don't forget, one created the other (which way around you look at it- creator and createe are opposites) one is carnal, the other spirit. Hope you realise where I'm coming from?

Well, in Christian theology, at any rate, human beings were created in "the Image of God." Human beings may exist in the flesh in this life, but our true beings would typically be seen as spirits. And sure, God may be omnipotent and omniscient, but the opposite of those would be having no power and no knowledge, not having some power and limited knowledge. I don't see how the created is opposite the creator--if I created an android, I'd hardly call it my opposite. The opposite of God, leastwise the Judeo-Christian God, is not humanity. It's either the Adversary (Satan, that is), or nothingness, depending on how you look at it. Personally, I'd lean towards the latter.

I can see where you are coming from- but two points
1) theologians are questioning whether god is human-like (why I don't know- its in the first bloody page of your bible)
2) Creator and Created are not absolute opposites granted.

other than that, master and slave are opposite as is the relationship between man and god. If you created an android- you would be opposite. It isn't human, you are. You create, it was created.

Interesting website.